Comments on: Question About Islam http://sabbah.biz/2006/03/25/question-about-islam/ Abed Hamdan rants and rambles Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:19:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Abed. Hamdan http://sabbah.biz/2006/03/25/question-about-islam/#comment-394 Abed. Hamdan Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:23:00 +0000 http://abedhamdan.com/?p=57#comment-394 <B>Joachim</B>: Thank you. I think we can have good conversation, specially on issues regarding palestine, Im palestinian by the way. <BR/>The problem was that you started with the word Barbarian, imagine that you want to start a conversation with a black man on the issue regarding racism against black people, will you start it by saying "you niggers are criminals and bla bla..?". this won't work.<BR/>and i have to apologize for being rude on some occasions. anyway, we are all here to seek peace and truth. and to discuss our differences and to reduce the gap between our two worlds. We all worship the same god, but each on his/her own way. We can't live in an isolation, 'cause our worlds are -as you said- overlapped. Many westerns are Muslims, and many Arabs are Christians and Jews. Our media and your media are causing nothing but troubles, they highlight things that cause problems and increase hatered, we are trying decrease hatered and to discuss different points of view. <BR/>About Katharina Question, I tried my best to seek the answer, i posted the answer on http://peaceroot.blogspot.com<BR/>please read it, It might make some sense to you, and i will hightlight some points on it now.<BR/>1)One can change the religion from Islam to another religion with two options: <BR/>a. Keep living in the Islamic Empire, but without declaring the new religion.<BR/>b. Leave the Islamic Empire.<BR/><BR/>2) Execution is the last option. On some conditions, Jail can be the punishment.<BR/><BR/>3) All those measures are taken cause as i said, Islam was like a constitution of the Islamic country rather than a religion. so whenever one person changing the religion,it was considered a revolution on the Country. Again execution is not the only option.<BR/><BR/>I tried my best to explain that rule on <BR/>http://peaceroot.blogspot.com<BR/>if any point still vague, please feel free to ask whatever.<BR/><BR/>Arab countries nowadays are not ruled by the constitution of Islam whatsoever,and hence that rule doesn't exist now. But However, In my own opinion, the Islamic constitution if applied well and completely (not selectively) is the best constitution(it's my personal opinion).<BR/>I still insist that parts of Islam might not make sense, but sum of its part will make sense. and my friend "Chet" said the same thing applies for Christainity.<BR/>Thing is, we sometimes become mad, and we lose our sense in discussions, it happened to me when i first saw the Danish cartoons. and our media didn't focus on the apologies of the Danish Press. I didn't know that such apology exist untill i read it on <BR/>http://scandarabia.blogspot.com<BR/><BR/>Take care.<BR/>Regards,<BR/>Abed. Hamdan Joachim: Thank you. I think we can have good conversation, specially on issues regarding palestine, Im palestinian by the way.
The problem was that you started with the word Barbarian, imagine that you want to start a conversation with a black man on the issue regarding racism against black people, will you start it by saying “you niggers are criminals and bla bla..?”. this won’t work.
and i have to apologize for being rude on some occasions. anyway, we are all here to seek peace and truth. and to discuss our differences and to reduce the gap between our two worlds. We all worship the same god, but each on his/her own way. We can’t live in an isolation, ’cause our worlds are -as you said- overlapped. Many westerns are Muslims, and many Arabs are Christians and Jews. Our media and your media are causing nothing but troubles, they highlight things that cause problems and increase hatered, we are trying decrease hatered and to discuss different points of view.
About Katharina Question, I tried my best to seek the answer, i posted the answer on http://peaceroot.blogspot.com
please read it, It might make some sense to you, and i will hightlight some points on it now.
1)One can change the religion from Islam to another religion with two options:
a. Keep living in the Islamic Empire, but without declaring the new religion.
b. Leave the Islamic Empire.

2) Execution is the last option. On some conditions, Jail can be the punishment.

3) All those measures are taken cause as i said, Islam was like a constitution of the Islamic country rather than a religion. so whenever one person changing the religion,it was considered a revolution on the Country. Again execution is not the only option.

I tried my best to explain that rule on
http://peaceroot.blogspot.com
if any point still vague, please feel free to ask whatever.

Arab countries nowadays are not ruled by the constitution of Islam whatsoever,and hence that rule doesn’t exist now. But However, In my own opinion, the Islamic constitution if applied well and completely (not selectively) is the best constitution(it’s my personal opinion).
I still insist that parts of Islam might not make sense, but sum of its part will make sense. and my friend “Chet” said the same thing applies for Christainity.
Thing is, we sometimes become mad, and we lose our sense in discussions, it happened to me when i first saw the Danish cartoons. and our media didn’t focus on the apologies of the Danish Press. I didn’t know that such apology exist untill i read it on
http://scandarabia.blogspot.com

Take care.
Regards,
Abed. Hamdan

]]> By: Joachim http://sabbah.biz/2006/03/25/question-about-islam/#comment-395 Joachim Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:57:00 +0000 http://abedhamdan.com/?p=57#comment-395 Abed, you're a good man. And I'm sorry to disappoint you; age ensures neither wisdom nor temperance. After all, its always been that men my age (and older) start the wars for men your age to fight. Still, I remain both confused and angry about this rule imposing death for a man's beliefs. And, I am quite concerned about how it reflects on the gaps between cultures, particularly given the increasing overlap of our two worlds. At times, it seems unbridgeable. But let me say, you have raised good and appropriate points about my manners and methods of expression on these sensitive issues, and I do apologize to you for the offence (I believe my wife thanks you as well). Perhaps our conversation is exhausted now, but I may seek your advice and insight on my many qustions regarding Islam, and on the issue that brought me here -- Palestine. Good luck to you. Abed, you’re a good man. And I’m sorry to disappoint you; age ensures neither wisdom nor temperance. After all, its always been that men my age (and older) start the wars for men your age to fight. Still, I remain both confused and angry about this rule imposing death for a man’s beliefs. And, I am quite concerned about how it reflects on the gaps between cultures, particularly given the increasing overlap of our two worlds. At times, it seems unbridgeable. But let me say, you have raised good and appropriate points about my manners and methods of expression on these sensitive issues, and I do apologize to you for the offence (I believe my wife thanks you as well). Perhaps our conversation is exhausted now, but I may seek your advice and insight on my many qustions regarding Islam, and on the issue that brought me here — Palestine. Good luck to you.

]]> By: Abed. Hamdan http://sabbah.biz/2006/03/25/question-about-islam/#comment-396 Abed. Hamdan Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:49:00 +0000 http://abedhamdan.com/?p=57#comment-396 <B>Joachim</B>: I don't know why am I replying this, but when Katharina asked her question : she said this is "fucking Crazy" about the killing issue, and It was clear. But you called Muslims Barbarians, and suddenly you jumped to "9/11" and then you repeated all the attacks that muslims were accused of, and started to accuse and humuliate. you said i will not answer Katharina question 'cause there's no answer.<BR/>It was clear from your posts that you were not seeking truth or looking for answers to questions or even looking for a decent conversations, you were looking for a fight, accuses, and nothing reasonable. Im so sorry that one of your age(44) could behave like that. <BR/>Again, if you're looking for a decent conversation, then you're welcome, disucss whatever you want, but i think respect is a major is major basis for conversations, aint it?<BR/>Im ready to have a decent conversation with you, if you want. Joachim: I don’t know why am I replying this, but when Katharina asked her question : she said this is “fucking Crazy” about the killing issue, and It was clear. But you called Muslims Barbarians, and suddenly you jumped to “9/11″ and then you repeated all the attacks that muslims were accused of, and started to accuse and humuliate. you said i will not answer Katharina question ’cause there’s no answer.
It was clear from your posts that you were not seeking truth or looking for answers to questions or even looking for a decent conversations, you were looking for a fight, accuses, and nothing reasonable. Im so sorry that one of your age(44) could behave like that.
Again, if you’re looking for a decent conversation, then you’re welcome, disucss whatever you want, but i think respect is a major is major basis for conversations, aint it?
Im ready to have a decent conversation with you, if you want.

]]> By: JustKatharina http://sabbah.biz/2006/03/25/question-about-islam/#comment-397 JustKatharina Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:11:00 +0000 http://abedhamdan.com/?p=57#comment-397 ps:joachim: lets hear ur speculation why abed holds a differnet standards when it comes to me... ps:joachim: lets hear ur speculation why abed holds a differnet standards when it comes to me…

]]> By: JustKatharina http://sabbah.biz/2006/03/25/question-about-islam/#comment-398 JustKatharina Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:09:00 +0000 http://abedhamdan.com/?p=57#comment-398 Joachim<BR/>i called it "fucking crazy"cause i dont understand it..i sayed its soemthing from the "stone age" cause in my believes that is where people killed each toher and now should be a time of peace..abed didnt feel offended by this(i hope)cause he knows that i at least try to understand and cause he knows we both have the same goal PEACE..our choice of words,culture and religion might differ but thats who we are and peace is what we r seeking! Joachim
i called it “fucking crazy”cause i dont understand it..i sayed its soemthing from the “stone age” cause in my believes that is where people killed each toher and now should be a time of peace..abed didnt feel offended by this(i hope)cause he knows that i at least try to understand and cause he knows we both have the same goal PEACE..our choice of words,culture and religion might differ but thats who we are and peace is what we r seeking!

]]> By: Joachim http://sabbah.biz/2006/03/25/question-about-islam/#comment-399 Joachim Thu, 30 Mar 2006 01:37:00 +0000 http://abedhamdan.com/?p=57#comment-399 Abed, <BR/>First, you'll recall that this conversation started with your good friend Katharina characterizing this Islamic tenet as "fucking crazy" and something out of "the stone ages." Someone on her site first responded that this practice is "STUPID," engaged in only by "fanatics" and must be "stopped." It seems to me that my characterizing senseless murder as "barbaric" is, by comparison, a measured and, some would say, even polite description. I can only speculate as to why you hold Katharina to a different standard. In any event, I'm sorry that I sounded like I was just whining. Generally, I only whine when I spill coffee on my tie before work, or when my kids neglect their chores, or when my basketball picks are so far off (like this year)-- you get the idea. In this instance, I meant to sound really angry and seriously offended that Islamic law requires executing people for their religious beliefs -- and not merely whiney. Ah well, perhaps you're right, what's the big deal. I guess the bastard deserves it. Why should I care, anyway. Which ironically brings me to "what am I doing here" in the first place? Bear with me; a few weeks ago, I saw a play at the University in my town. It was about the plight of Palastinians, and it raised compelling questions about US policy in the region, and caused me to seriously question a number of assumptions. Let me be candid -- I was moved. It was a great play about the people, their lives, and the effects of politics. I felt like I needed to help, get involved, do something. And so, in an effort first to gain more information from a broader source, I started visiting (for the first time in my 44 years) some blog sites, particularly those originating in the region. One of the first things that caught my eye was Katharina's question. Although a narrow question, surely the answer would reflect on the core values of the region. Needless to say, Abed, I was shocked and deeply offended by the answer. And, after this conversation, with your and Dozz' responses (which I have likewise found impolite and disrespectful), I've heard and seen enough. I'm no longer interested. Its your region, your future, your problem. Good luck with it. Abed,
First, you’ll recall that this conversation started with your good friend Katharina characterizing this Islamic tenet as “fucking crazy” and something out of “the stone ages.” Someone on her site first responded that this practice is “STUPID,” engaged in only by “fanatics” and must be “stopped.” It seems to me that my characterizing senseless murder as “barbaric” is, by comparison, a measured and, some would say, even polite description. I can only speculate as to why you hold Katharina to a different standard. In any event, I’m sorry that I sounded like I was just whining. Generally, I only whine when I spill coffee on my tie before work, or when my kids neglect their chores, or when my basketball picks are so far off (like this year)– you get the idea. In this instance, I meant to sound really angry and seriously offended that Islamic law requires executing people for their religious beliefs — and not merely whiney. Ah well, perhaps you’re right, what’s the big deal. I guess the bastard deserves it. Why should I care, anyway. Which ironically brings me to “what am I doing here” in the first place? Bear with me; a few weeks ago, I saw a play at the University in my town. It was about the plight of Palastinians, and it raised compelling questions about US policy in the region, and caused me to seriously question a number of assumptions. Let me be candid — I was moved. It was a great play about the people, their lives, and the effects of politics. I felt like I needed to help, get involved, do something. And so, in an effort first to gain more information from a broader source, I started visiting (for the first time in my 44 years) some blog sites, particularly those originating in the region. One of the first things that caught my eye was Katharina’s question. Although a narrow question, surely the answer would reflect on the core values of the region. Needless to say, Abed, I was shocked and deeply offended by the answer. And, after this conversation, with your and Dozz’ responses (which I have likewise found impolite and disrespectful), I’ve heard and seen enough. I’m no longer interested. Its your region, your future, your problem. Good luck with it.

]]> By: Abed. Hamdan http://sabbah.biz/2006/03/25/question-about-islam/#comment-400 Abed. Hamdan Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:27:00 +0000 http://abedhamdan.com/?p=57#comment-400 <B>Dozz</B>: Thank you :)<BR/><BR/><B>Joachim</B>: Man, you think it's a conversation, but actually it's not. How come you are trying to start a conversation by accusing people to be "Barbarians" or whatever. If you don't like us, then leave us alone, If you think we're lower than you, then don't come and talk to us in an impolite way. Katharina asked a question, and I didn't know the answer, and i asked for the answer. Now what are you doing here ?? trying to start a fight ??<BR/>We are trying to reduce the hole between the two worlds, not to increase hatered between us.<BR/>I told you i can play the blame game and start accusing and blaming, but I won't. There are always better ways.<BR/>If you're looking for a fight, then im not your best choice. If you hate us to a point that you can't have a decent conversation with us, then just go away. All your posts contained un-justified accuses, inAccurate information, impolite words, blaming, and whining. What do you expect us to answer you back ?<BR/>There are many people here who like your type of conversations, you see them on TV burning flags or whatever, go and talk to them, have fights with them, and start accusing them with whatever. I told you if you have a question you can ask, but to have a conversation with us, you'd better be polite, decent, accurate with your information, and you should respect our humanity and yours.<BR/>I don't think i'll be answering any of your posts, they are all the same, and sorry for saying that they are worthless. I'll just ignore you.<BR/>You don't wanna have a conversation, it's clear. Dozz: Thank you :)

Joachim: Man, you think it’s a conversation, but actually it’s not. How come you are trying to start a conversation by accusing people to be “Barbarians” or whatever. If you don’t like us, then leave us alone, If you think we’re lower than you, then don’t come and talk to us in an impolite way. Katharina asked a question, and I didn’t know the answer, and i asked for the answer. Now what are you doing here ?? trying to start a fight ??
We are trying to reduce the hole between the two worlds, not to increase hatered between us.
I told you i can play the blame game and start accusing and blaming, but I won’t. There are always better ways.
If you’re looking for a fight, then im not your best choice. If you hate us to a point that you can’t have a decent conversation with us, then just go away. All your posts contained un-justified accuses, inAccurate information, impolite words, blaming, and whining. What do you expect us to answer you back ?
There are many people here who like your type of conversations, you see them on TV burning flags or whatever, go and talk to them, have fights with them, and start accusing them with whatever. I told you if you have a question you can ask, but to have a conversation with us, you’d better be polite, decent, accurate with your information, and you should respect our humanity and yours.
I don’t think i’ll be answering any of your posts, they are all the same, and sorry for saying that they are worthless. I’ll just ignore you.
You don’t wanna have a conversation, it’s clear.

]]> By: Joachim http://sabbah.biz/2006/03/25/question-about-islam/#comment-401 Joachim Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:59:00 +0000 http://abedhamdan.com/?p=57#comment-401 Dozz, <BR/>1. The only punishable act for "betraying" my country requires a person to engage in warfare (that's attempting to kill) against fellow citizens. But people are fully permitted to denounce the government, burn flags, protest, renounce citizenship, leave the country, disagree with everything, change political parties, change ideas and beliefs -- in other words, people can think whatever the hell they want and its not even a crime, let alone one punishable by death. So, to answer your questionn --I'd be extremely upset if a person were executed for "betraying" my country if that betrayal only involved their thoughts, ideas or beliefs. Killing someone for their ideas is fascism. Its really that simple.<BR/>2. So, what you're saying is that there really is no such thing as Islamic extremism. Committing violent, militant acts in the name of Islam just means they're not really muslim. ??? You're right Dozz, this conversation is going nowhere. In fact, this conversation is going nowhere in the entire muslim world. And that's the problem.<BR/>p.s. if you don't trust any media, where do you get your information? Just curious. Dozz,
1. The only punishable act for “betraying” my country requires a person to engage in warfare (that’s attempting to kill) against fellow citizens. But people are fully permitted to denounce the government, burn flags, protest, renounce citizenship, leave the country, disagree with everything, change political parties, change ideas and beliefs — in other words, people can think whatever the hell they want and its not even a crime, let alone one punishable by death. So, to answer your questionn –I’d be extremely upset if a person were executed for “betraying” my country if that betrayal only involved their thoughts, ideas or beliefs. Killing someone for their ideas is fascism. Its really that simple.
2. So, what you’re saying is that there really is no such thing as Islamic extremism. Committing violent, militant acts in the name of Islam just means they’re not really muslim. ??? You’re right Dozz, this conversation is going nowhere. In fact, this conversation is going nowhere in the entire muslim world. And that’s the problem.
p.s. if you don’t trust any media, where do you get your information? Just curious.

]]> By: Dozz http://sabbah.biz/2006/03/25/question-about-islam/#comment-402 Dozz Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:06:00 +0000 http://abedhamdan.com/?p=57#comment-402 kathrina,on the contrary,ur comments are the bright side of this conversation...;)<BR/>joachim,<BR/>i beleive abed provided the full answer to the question,as much as i'de like to end this conversation coz its really going nowhere..i need to clear some points :<BR/>1.Islam is threatening to u people not because it involves cold-blooded murder(it doesnt!)...i wonder what would u call executing a person for betraying his country???!!...ur afraid islam might spread..Rule!...<BR/>2.As a muslim..who REALLY knows what is islam..i know that people who do all those horrible things in the name of islam are just not muslims!!...they know nothing about the core of islam and they dont represent it in any way...conspiracies?...its possible...anything's possible in politics i believe....its funny how make ur own conclusions based on the facts u get from the media....for me...they lost their credibility loong ago...<BR/>again...its all about ignorance!!!!!<BR/>abed,<BR/>im speechless..ur the greatest!!..n i know how engineering is!!been there..:/<BR/>yalla gud luck...mid terms r not that far!!! kathrina,on the contrary,ur comments are the bright side of this conversation…;)
joachim,
i beleive abed provided the full answer to the question,as much as i’de like to end this conversation coz its really going nowhere..i need to clear some points :
1.Islam is threatening to u people not because it involves cold-blooded murder(it doesnt!)…i wonder what would u call executing a person for betraying his country???!!…ur afraid islam might spread..Rule!…
2.As a muslim..who REALLY knows what is islam..i know that people who do all those horrible things in the name of islam are just not muslims!!…they know nothing about the core of islam and they dont represent it in any way…conspiracies?…its possible…anything’s possible in politics i believe….its funny how make ur own conclusions based on the facts u get from the media….for me…they lost their credibility loong ago…
again…its all about ignorance!!!!!
abed,
im speechless..ur the greatest!!..n i know how engineering is!!been there..:/
yalla gud luck…mid terms r not that far!!!

]]> By: Joachim http://sabbah.biz/2006/03/25/question-about-islam/#comment-403 Joachim Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:54:00 +0000 http://abedhamdan.com/?p=57#comment-403 I'm sorry Abed, but I have a hard time engaging in polite conversation about murder, particularly when its justification rests on the absurdity that an innocent man should die merely for adopting a different view about God. And yes Dozz, I find it very threatening that Islam sanctions such premeditated killing of a person for committing this so called crime of religious ambivalence. You started this conversation blithely discussing this execution as though Katharina asked about wedding etiquette or proper ritual food preparation. My god, we're talking about the cold-blooded killing of another human being for no other reason than his religious ideas. Threatening? You bet it is. Katharina, what possible difference can the "when, why and conditions" make concerning this question? There simply is no conceivable set of facts that could morally justify killing someone for their beliefs about God. Why would you need anyone's permission to be offended by that act? Why are you afraid to judge it? Its murder. Are you really willing to politely excuse this depravity in the name of culteral diversity? Abed answers that this act is merely one facet of an ideology that must be considered as a greater whole. And I suppose this would be true, if we were discussing some banal question of religious practice, like whether to eat meat or pray in the morning versus evening. But we're not. We're talking about taking another man's life because of what he believes. That's just wrong. And don't misunderstand me; I accept the notion of justifiable homicide, I'm not a pacifist, or a moral absolutist. On this question though, I don't care through what moral or cultural prism you examine the issue -- its wrong to kill a man because he no longer shares your views. Moreover, Dozz, I don't have a shadow of a doubt that muslims were behind every event I spoke of, not because the "media" told me, but rather because the objective, rational facts point to no other conclusion. The fact that you engage in some escapist fantasy (what, the Jews conspired to blow up the Trade Center -- which ones let you in on the secret?) rather than confront the troubling reality of Islamic political extremism is perhaps the most threatening aspect of this conversation. Because if decent, caring, and intelligent people like yourselves are not willing to take a critical and meaningful look at the political forces of Islam, we're all in a lot of trouble.<BR/>p.s. I hope the exam went well. I’m sorry Abed, but I have a hard time engaging in polite conversation about murder, particularly when its justification rests on the absurdity that an innocent man should die merely for adopting a different view about God. And yes Dozz, I find it very threatening that Islam sanctions such premeditated killing of a person for committing this so called crime of religious ambivalence. You started this conversation blithely discussing this execution as though Katharina asked about wedding etiquette or proper ritual food preparation. My god, we’re talking about the cold-blooded killing of another human being for no other reason than his religious ideas. Threatening? You bet it is. Katharina, what possible difference can the “when, why and conditions” make concerning this question? There simply is no conceivable set of facts that could morally justify killing someone for their beliefs about God. Why would you need anyone’s permission to be offended by that act? Why are you afraid to judge it? Its murder. Are you really willing to politely excuse this depravity in the name of culteral diversity? Abed answers that this act is merely one facet of an ideology that must be considered as a greater whole. And I suppose this would be true, if we were discussing some banal question of religious practice, like whether to eat meat or pray in the morning versus evening. But we’re not. We’re talking about taking another man’s life because of what he believes. That’s just wrong. And don’t misunderstand me; I accept the notion of justifiable homicide, I’m not a pacifist, or a moral absolutist. On this question though, I don’t care through what moral or cultural prism you examine the issue — its wrong to kill a man because he no longer shares your views. Moreover, Dozz, I don’t have a shadow of a doubt that muslims were behind every event I spoke of, not because the “media” told me, but rather because the objective, rational facts point to no other conclusion. The fact that you engage in some escapist fantasy (what, the Jews conspired to blow up the Trade Center — which ones let you in on the secret?) rather than confront the troubling reality of Islamic political extremism is perhaps the most threatening aspect of this conversation. Because if decent, caring, and intelligent people like yourselves are not willing to take a critical and meaningful look at the political forces of Islam, we’re all in a lot of trouble.
p.s. I hope the exam went well.

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